HomeMy WebLinkAboutCCA 1986-09-09 Minutes
CALL TO ORDER
ROLL CALL
MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL CALLED MEETING
OF THE BUILDING CODE & ORDINANCE
COMMITTEE OF THE CITY OF NORTH RICHLAND
HILLS, TX SEPTEMBER 9, 1986. - 7:00 P.M.
The meeting was called to order at
7:00 P.M. by acting chairman John
Larriviere.
PRESENT:
Secretary
Members
Greg Wheeler
Orville Baker
John Larriviere
Michael Dean
Eric Hill
Danny Taylor
Ron Fields
Rex McIntyre
Fire Marshall
Fire Inspect.
City Attorney
ABSENT
Joe Coulson
Robert Skinner
CONSIDERATION OF MINUTES
1. BBA 86-6
The approval of minutes of the meeting
on June 10, 1986 was postponed due to
the lack of a quorum.
Request by the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter Day Saints to appeal the
Fire Code requirements as adopted in
City Ordinance No. 1377.
Rex McIntyre explained that the func-
tion of the Board of Appeals was to
interpret the codes. The board was
not to grant immunity from the codes
or waivers. The board does not have
the power.
John Larriviere called the representa-
tive of the Church of Jesus Christ
Latter Day Saints to come forward.
Mrs. Pat Kuehn carne forward and listed
the items that she wanted waivered or
appealed.
Rex McIntyre stated that the board
could not do this. They could only
interpretate.
Pat Kuehn stated that she had under-
stood that the Board could grant a
Page 2.
a waiver as said by the Fire Dept.
Danny Taylor stated that this was a
new procedure and that his department
did not know alot about it. The
church could only appeal to the Board.
Pat Kuehn stated that a number of the
items could be waivered by the local
jurisdiction or authority. Mrs. Kuehn
asked if the Fire Department had that
authority.
Danny Taylor stated that he could
overlook all of the items but that
he would not.
Rex McIntyre stated that if they had
a discretionary section that they
wanted waivered the Fire Department
had the power.
Pat Kuehn explained that they were
doing minor remodeling for the church.
Some of the items were: changing
the paving in the parking lot to con-
crete; dry up water underneath the
foundation; adding gutters; redoing
the ceiling; replace thermostats; add-
ing HVAC units to offices; replacing
the stage curtains and toilet parti-
tions; grills in exhaust fans; re-
placing parking lot lights; sound-
proofing some doors; putting trim
around the stage; changing the main
auditorium lighting to fluorescent;
relocating lights, and adding an
exterior vestibule. Mrs. Kuehn said
that some of them were not major
items and that is why they wanted some
of them waivered. She stated that
concerning item No. 3 about the fire
hydrant. There is one fire hydrant
that does not cover the entire
building in the 300 feet radius. From
the fire hydrant to the farthest point
in the building in one direction is
545 feet. In the other direction is
495 feet. In addition, inside the
building are four fire hose cabinets.
Under the circumstances with the four
inside hoses and the fact that they
are not much outside the 300 foot
radius, they would like that to remain
as is for it would present financial
problems for their client.
Page 3.
John Larriviere asked if Mrs. Kuehn
was finished with item No.3.
Pat Kuehn stated yes.
Orville Baker asked Greg Wheeler if
there is a cost that determines the
extent of the compliance with the code
for an existing building when a
certain percentage of the building
is remodeled.
Greg Wheeler stated that the Building
Code has a variety of requirements.
Usually fifty percent for remodeling
for a major building. There is no
standard percentage.
John Larriviere asked Ron Fields to
interpret the code for the variance
that the church was asking for.
Ron Fields stated that under the City
Rules and Regulations Policy and
Procedures for the North Richland
Hills Water and Sewage System there
is no variance. In areas other than
single family fire hydrants shall be
on a 300 foot radius.
John Larriviere stated that to meet
the Fire Code the church would need
a fire hydrant.
Ron Fields stated yes, that the church
would need to get with the Public
Works Director to decide what main it
would need to come up off of.
John Larriviere asked Pat Kuehn if
they knew that information at this
time.
Pat Kuehn stated no, she did not know
the location of the closest main. The
hose lay was not over 750 feet.
John Larriviere motioned that item
No. 3 be voted on.
Eric Hill asked how many hydrants
would be needed.
Pat Kuehn stated that one hydrant was
needed.
,
Page 4.
Eric Hill asked of money was the
main concern.
Pat Kuehn stated yes because the
church was not wealthy. The items
would have normally been maintenance
work and never would have passed the
City's desk. But for the church's
convenience and the congregations
peace of mind concerning the quality
of work, it was brought to the City.
Eric Hill stated that his main concern
was an accident happening.
Pat Kuehn stated that the congregation
did not smoke and candles were not
used in the services. The Church had
fire equipment as every building does.
The building is made of concrete
block.
Orville Baker asked of there were any
provisions in the Fire Code that says
the Class of Building as far as one
in infrequent use as a church compared
to a business.
Ron Fields stated that the only
difference between classes is single
family and commercial.
Orville Baker motioned to deny the
request of Item No.3.
Eric Hill seconded and the motion
carried 4-0.
Pat Kuehn stated the Code reads that
"Items can be that in an existing
building alteration shall not diminish
level of life safety below that which
exists prior to the alteration. Life
safety features which do not meet the
requirements for new buildings but
exceed requirements for existing
buildings shall not be further dimin-
ished. Life safety features in an
excess in those required for new
construction are not required to be
maintained and in no case shall the
resulting life safety be less than
that required for existing buildings."
Mrs. Kuehn said that there are differ-
ences in the code for new and existing
structures.
Page 5.
John Larriviere asked Ron Fields to
interpret.
Ron Fields stated that there is a
specific chapter in the Fire Code
for existing buildings. Every write
up from the Fire Department is done
under the Existing Building section.
Pat Kuehn stated that under the Life
Safety Code Handbook the commentary
says that "It is not the intent of the
code to make existing places of assem-
bly conform precisely to the require-
ments of new occupancies, however, it
is the intent of the code that exist-
ing places of assembly comply to the
extent that reasonable life safety is
provided." Mrs. Kuehn said that her
exception was with the reasonable life
safety.
Ron Fields stated that if the Fire
Department did not feel it was neces-
sary, they would not write the code
up. He would not put a dollar value
on a human life. With the Church
having an occupant load of 1000
people, what would be reasonable.
John Larriviere asked what code the
Church was under prior to construc-
tion.
Ron Fields stated the when the Church
was built, they probably did not have
a fire code and that is why there were
no sprinklers in the building.
Bill Fowkes, the minister of the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter
Day Saints, stated the building was
designed to facilitate several con-
gregations at one time. Each congre-
gation is sized so that they are no
larger at anyone time to occupy the
building. Each congregation occupies
the building 3 hours in a set
schedule. Only twice a year is the
church filled with the 1000 people
occupancy load. The kitchen is just
a serving area, food is not prepared
in it. Stoves are only used for
warming up food. The stage area is
used 3 times a year for culture events
and is also used for a classroom.
Page 6.
With no smoking or use of candles,
special consideration concerning the
fire code should be given.
Rex McIntyre asked Mrs. Kuehn if she
had run into any other cities under
this fire code.
Pat Kuehn stated yes she had and some
cities were under the 1985 Code rather
than the 1981.
Rex McIntyre asked Mrs. Kuehn if any
other cities were under the 1981 NFP.
Pat Kuehn stated no.
Rex McIntyre stated that this was the
only city under the 1981 Code. He said
that is was not the interpretation
that Mrs. Kuehn needed, it was that
the code was to tough.
Mrs. Kuehn agreed.
Rex McIntyre stated that if Mrs. Kuehn
was wanting the Code waived, she would
need to see the City Council because
the Board of Appeals and the Fire
Department did not have the power to
waiver it.
Mrs. Kuehn stated that it was not
strictly true as Danny Taylor had
pointed out. It is up to the Fire
Department to determine how strictly
they want to force the code in any
particular instance.
Rex McIntyre stated the Danny Taylor
was being factitious when he said
that, he could turn his head and not
do anything about it. He asked her to
find a discrepancy in what she was
asking there, point it out to him and
to the commission; she may be
correct. Mr. McIntyre stated that he
had not seen any yet.
Danny Taylor stated that he could look
the other way and possibly lose his
job.
Rex McIntyre stated that if there was
actual discretion in the code, point
it out where the discretion is on a
Page 7.
particular item. The commission
has the same power the Fire Depart-
ment has.
Pat Kuehn stated that it was the in-
tent in the lead paragraph that "In
existing buildings, housing, and
assembly occupancy established prior
to the effective date of this code
may have its use continued if it con-
forms to the provisions of this code
in the opinion of the authority having
jurisdiction reasonable life safety
against fire hazards, explosions, and
panic is maintained."
Rex McIntyre stated that Ron Fields
came under the Existing Building code
and that it was a precise term. He
asked Pat Kuehn if she is saying that
there is some discretion.
Pat Kuehn stated agreed that the para-
graph she just read at the beginning
of the Existing Building section in
the Fire Code gives Ron Fields the
authority to wave or repeal
the requirements as long as he feels
reasonable life safety against the
fire hazards is maintained. She said
that the Church feels that their
occupancy because of the low fire
risk should be considered for these
waivers.
Mrs. Kuehn stated that the next item
they wanted waive red was the require-
ment of a fire sprinkler being
installed over the stage.
Danny Taylor stated that each building
submitted for a permit, is brought
up to the minimum requirements of the
Life Safety Code by the Fire
Department. In the Fire Department's
opinion the sprinkler system is the
minimum life safety requirement. The
Board may not feel that a sprinkler
system is required and if not
it would be waivered.
Orville Baker asked Ron Fields the
size of a building that would be
required to be sprinklered.
Ron Fields replied a building over
Page 8.
25,000 square feet and the Church
building was over that. If a second
opinion was wanted, then the plans
could be sent to National Fire
Protection Association to let them
give give the approximate square
footage since they write the Code.
Orville Baker asked the square
footage of the Church.
Ron Fields stated that he came up with
a little over 25,000 gross square
feet on the first floor only. He had
not figured the top floor yet.
Pat Kuehn stated that the second floor
only consisted of some mechanical
rooms.
Rex McIntyre asked Pat Kuehn the
square footage that she came up with.
Pat Kuehn stated that she came up with
24,929 with the addition and the up-
stairs. Being a very odd shaped
building, the footage was very hard to
figure and it could be off.
Danny Taylor asked the footage of the
upstairs.
Pat Kuehn stated that there was 1150
square feet.
John Larriviere asked if a building
had a stage was it required to be
sprinklered.
Ron Fields stated no. Every enclosed
platform larger than 500 square feet
in area shall have an automatic
sprinkler system.
John Larriviere asked if the size of
building mattered.
Ron Fields stated no.
John Larriviere stated that a vote
needed to be taken.
Eric Hill motioned to deny the request
of Item No.4.
Michael Dean seconded and the motion
carried 4-0 to deny.
Page 9.
Pat Kuehn stated that the next item
was No. 7 concerning emergency light-
ing. Her only comment was that it was
an existing building. In order to
comply, it would be expensive and the
ceiling would have to be torn down.
Danny Taylor asked if the Board under-
stood what they were referring to as
emergency lighting. He said that it
was a backup lightirrg system operating
by battery that would come on in case
of a power failure.
Rex McIntyre asked Danny Taylor where
exactly were they required in the
Church.
Danny Taylor stated in the corridors
leading out to exits.
Rex McIntyre asked about the problem
of taking down the ceiling.
Pat Kuehn stated that in order to be
able to install the conduits for the
emergency lighting, the ceiling would
have to be taken down.
Danny Taylor asked if it was a suspen-
ded ceiling.
Pat Kuehn stated no it was not.
Rex McIntyre asked how they would put
the light pack in.
Danny Taylor stated that the wiring
would have to run through the ceiling
and into the electrical system.
John Larriviere asked if when people
renovate, are they brought up to the
current code.
Danny Taylor stated that a change of
ownership in a commercial building
comes under the same code.
Orville Baker asked if they had any
extenuating circumstances for the
halls on the outside having lights.
Pat Kuehn stated no, all the hall were
interior corridors with ample lighting
during the day.
Page 10.
Eric Hill asked if the Church had
night meetings.
Pat Kuehn stated they had occasional
meetings at night.
John Larriviere called for a vote.
Orville Baker motioned to deny the
request of Item No.7.
Eric Hill seconded and the motion
carried 4-0 to deny.
Mrs. Kuehn stated that the next item
she wanted to comment on was Item No.
10, (food preparation facilities),
about the ventilation system and fire
protection system for ranges in the
kitchen. The portion of the Code that
the Fire Marshall has called out where
the requirement is found under Special
Provisions for Food Service Establish-
ments. Single occupancies include
bars and restaurants. Her interpreta-
tion of this provision for food
service establishments is for
restaurants, not churches.
Eric Hill asked of food establish-
ments were defined in the provision.
Rex McIntyre asked Pat Kuehn if this
was her objection to the requirement
of the Fire Department.
Pat Kuehn stated yes.
Rex McIntyre asked what was required.
Pat Kuehn stated that food preparation
facilities shall be protected in
accordance with Vapor Removal Cooking
Equipment in NFPA 96 and are not re-
quired to have openings protected be-
tween food preparation areas and
dining areas. NFPA 96 calls for a
commercial vent hood system of stain-
less steel that has outside air to
come in and circulate air. It also
incorporates a halogen fire suppres-
sion system so that if anything breaks
out on the stove, the fire suppression
system immediately extinguishes the
fire. "The intent of this is to put
some barrier between cooking areas and
Page 11.
dining areas of restaurants. The
intent of the barrier is to screen
possible flash fires from the view
of the patrons in an attempt to
prevent panic."
Rex McIntyre asked Pat Kuehn where
she was reading this from.
Pat Kuehn stated she read this from
the Life Safety Code Handbook
Section 9-3.2.4.3.
Eric Hill asked if anyone found the
definition of the term of food
service establishment.
John Larriviere asked why this item
came up and what was the Church doing
to the kitchen.
Pat Kuehn stated that there was not
going to be any remodeling in the
kitchen area. She said that the
majority of these items came up be-
cause something was being done to the
building. Nothing was being done to
the kitchen.
John Larriviere asked if they had a
vent-a-hood in the kitchen.
Pat Kuehn stated no. They had an
exhaust fan that serves the purpose of
of the vent-a-hood.
John Larriviere asked if it was over
the stove or in the ceiling.
Pat Kuehn stated that it was in the
ceiling. There was also a fire ex-
tinguisher in the kitchen by the
stove.
John Larriviere asked if the stove was
being used for just the warming up of
food.
Pat Kuehn stated yes.
Rex McIntyre asked what page of the
Handbook the information she read was
on.
Pat Kuehn stated on Page 248. The
title of the Section was on the
Page 12.
bottom of the page.
John Larriviere asked if there was
fire extinguishers in the area.
Pat Kuehn stated yes.
Danny Taylor stated that if the
stove was only used for warming
prepared food, for the Church should
get a microwave.
Rex McIntyre stated that a Church did
not seem to be a food service
establishment. The term should be for
a restaurant.
John Larriviere asked if the kitchen
was next to an assembly hall.
Pat Kuehn stated no it was an outside
room separated by a wall.
John Larriviere asked where the food
went once it was heated. He asked if
it was originally built as a kitchen
or later converted into one.
Pat Kuehn stated it was originally
built as a kitchen.
Bill Fowkes stated that it was the
general intent to just warm up foods.
No food was allowed to stay in the
building overnight. All of their
organizations had been warned against
cooking in the building.
Rex McIntyre stated that if he had to
determine whether any part of a church
was a food service establishment, he
would have to stretch it a long way
because an establishment is the pur-
pose of a business.
Eric Hill stated that it would be
hard pressed to find an establish-
ment that did not have a hot plate
for the same purpose.
John Larriviere stated they needed
more information on the definition
that the Church falls under for a
food service establishment.
Pat Kuehn stated that this is the
Page 13.
Special Provision for Food Service
Establishment and this is under the
portion that is for restaurants --
the commentary concerning restaurants
and nothing else.
Ron Fields stated that the commentary
was for the screening wall and not
for the food preparation facilities.
Rex McIntyre stated that the biggest
clue they have is that in this Section
it says it does not use food service
establishment, it calls it a food
preparation facility.
John Larriviere asked if it was or was
not allowed.
Rex McIntyre stated that it did not
pertain to this particular section.
John Larriviere stated if they were to
allow the Church to have two stoves
where they are not allowed.
Pat Kuehn stated that there was
nothing in the Code saying that the
Church could not have the stoves.
Ron Fields stated that in the NFPA 96
Code that any cooking equipment that
can produce smoke or grease laden
vapor must be protected. Mr. Fields
suggested that they go to the NFPA
and let those people tell them what it
is.
John Larriviere asked if there should
be a fire in the kitchen if the Board
grants the Church's request, where
would the liability fall.
Rex McIntyre stated that the Board
would not be liable unless that were
calling this a food service establish-
ment.
John Larriviere stated that they agree
that it is not a food service estab-
lishment. But that the Fire Marshall
obviously had some concern over it.
Danny Taylor stated that it is a fire
hazard because it is a cooking
facility and food is being prepared
for groups of people. This code has
Page 14.
been required in every establishment
in the city including day cares.
Rex McIntyre stated that the day cares
are covered by a different word of
where you prepare food; where as the
Church is under restaurants.
Orville Baker motioned that the Board
agree that the Church was not a food
service establishment.
Rex McIntyre stated that if the Church
was not a food service establishment,
then the provision did not apply.
John Larriviere asked for the vote of
whether the Church kitchen was a food
service establishment or not.
The Board agreed that it was not a
food service establishment.
Rex McIntyre stated that this was a
true interpretation problem that the
Board has to decide and he thought the
Board decided that it was not a food
service establishment and the Church
did not have to comply with the
requirements of a food service estab-
lishment.
Orville Baker made the motion to
approve the Church's request.
Michael Dean seconded and the motion
carried 4-0 to approve.
Pat Kuehn stated that the next item
was No. 11 concerning a manual fire
alarm system. That under the 1985
NFPA 101,
Ron Field interrupted and stated that
the City was under the 1984 NFPA.
Pat Kuehn stated that she knew that,
but this was part of her point. The
Church's occupancy would be exempted
under the 1985 Code. The Code was a
newer one and that the Code Officials
deemed that the 1984 Code was too
restrictive and unneccessary and the
Officials omitted it from the new
version of the 1985 NFPA. There is
not a place in the 1981 NFPA that she
wanted to address.
Page 15.
Rex McIntyre asked what the Fire
Department was requiring.
Pat Kuehn stated that every Class A
or B place of assembly shall be pro-
vided with a manual fire alarm system
in accordance with 7-6.1.2.
Rex McIntyre asked what was being
required.
Ron Fields stated that the Church had
to have a handle on the exits that
could be pulled in case of fire. The
alarms will warn everyone in the
building. The Code says that it is
required.
Orville Baker asked Ron Fields if he
had any reason for why the Code Off-
icials have changed the requirement
in the 1985 NFPA.
Ron Fields stated that he did not
know.
Rex McIntyre stated that he did not
know that 1985 Edition was already
out.
John Larriviere asked if the Church
had to have a manual and voice
system.
Ron Fields stated yes they had to
have a manual alarm system. The pur-
pose of the was so no one would have
to run through to certain part of the
building to set off the alarm. The
system would be at every exit door.
John Larriviere asked about 9-3.4.3.
Provisions shall be made for the
transmitting voice messages by a
public address system.
Ron Fields stated that was a part
of the alarm communication system.
The public address system is only
in the auditorium to prevent panic
that bells would do. The bells
would be in the halls and offices.
John Larriviere stated that he wonder-
ed why this was omitted from the
1985 NFPA.
Page 16.
Ron Fields stated that he did not
know. The engineers and specialists
of the NFPA would be the only ones
who could tell them why.
Orville Baker asked Pat Kuehn if she
had found anything to replace the
system in the Church.
Pat Kuehn stated no. The Code said
that assembly occupancies required
to be sprinklered by Section 9-3.5.1.,
"Theaters with more than one audience
viewing room, and all assembly occu-
pancies of over a 2,000 occupant load
shall be provided with an approved
fire alarm system in accordance with
this Section." She said under this
Code their occupancy load was less
than 2,000 and therefore the system
is not required.
Bill Fowkes state that the acoustics
in the Church were such that a noise
making alarm system which when set
off, there would be no way that the
alarm could not be heard throughout
the auditorium, chapel, and cultur-
al center of the building. The Fire
Department is requiring that the Church
is to have a voice backup system that
is to prevent a panic situation where
the noise making system is already
alerting the people. He said that
there was no way to isolate the
auditorium from the class room
sections without spending millions of
dollars. He stated that he did not
know what the Fire Department expect-
ed the Church to do.
Ron Fields stated that the Code said
that they had to do two things. 1.)
have bells in all places of assembly
and 2) the auditorium had to have a
prerecorded voice message upon the
activation of the alarm system. They
must have an activation by manual
alarm system.
Rex McIntyre asked what kind of alarms
the Church had now.
Pat Kuehn stated the there was not an
alarm in the existing building.
Page 17.
Bill Fowkes stated that in churches
that have auditoriums, he under-
stands that they have to have a
manual pull alarm system, the Church
is not fighting that provision. They
are concerned about the fact that
in addition to that, they are to have
a recorded voice message. He said
in this situation it was ridiculous.
He agreed with the manual alarm
system but not to have both.
Ron Fields stated that the voice alarm
was for the auditorium only.
Bill Fowkes stated that he knew that,
but everything could be heard from the
auditorium.
Ron Fields asked how he knew that he
could hears alarms go off without
any alarms in the building.
Pat Kuehn asked if under the Section
they are also given the option of
having the room manned while the
auditorium is occupied and using a
live voice instead of a pre-recorded
voice.
Ron Fields stated no.
John Larriviere stated that a vote
needed to be taken.
Orville Baker motioned to deny the
request of Item No. 11.
Michael Dean seconded and the motion
carried 4-0 to deny.
Pat Kuehn stated that Item No. 14 re-
garding Marking of Means of Egress was
next. Under 9-2.1.0. means of egress
shall have signs in accordance with
Section 5-10. In that section under
5-10.1.2., there is an exception that
signs in existing building need not
meet the 100 foot distance require-
ment. The other point regarding this
is in the commentary. "The character
of the occupancy has the practicle
effect of the need for signs in any
any place of assembly, hotel, depart-
ment store or other buildings subject
to transient occupancy, the need for
signs will be greater than in a build-
Page 18.
ing subject to permanent or semipermanent
occupancy. Mrs. Kuehn stated that she
read that as saying that the building
that people are familiar with should
have less requirements than those
building that people are less familiar
with.
Eric Hill asked if the Church ever had
an influx of strangers in the Church
that were not familiar with the
building.
Bill Fowkes stated that they did have
new members coming in and they did make
up a fraction of the congregation of
about ten percent of year. They were
talking of a very small percentage of
people not knowing the layout of the
Church.
Eric Hill asked of there were any
conventions held at the Church.
Bill Fowkes stated that the people who
used to use the building only one to two
times a year are coming on a more
frequent basis for other activities.
For the most part a large portion of
people of familiar with the building at
all times.
Orville Baker asked if the Church had
any exit sign at the present.
Bill Fowkes stated that they did have
exits sign that were lit.
Pat Kuehn stated that the Fire Depart-
ment did not feel that there were not
enough signs.
John Larriviere asked if the sign were
in an inadequate places.
Pat Kuehn stated that the signs that
they had were in the auditorium to show
the exits out of the auditorium doors.
John Larriviere asked if the sign were
adequate now according to the Code.
Pat Kuehn stated that the Fire Marshall
said that the signs were not adequate
and that there were not enough of the
signs.
Page 19.
Rex McIntyre asked if the Fire Marshall
was saying is that there had to be a
sign at each entrance.
Pat Kuehn stated no that under the Code
in the Section of Exit Marking, it say
"Access to exits shall be marked by
readily visible signs in all cases where
the exit or way reach it is not
immediately visible to the occupants.
Sign placement shall be such that no
point in the exit access is more than
100 feet from the nearest visible sign.
The exception being signs in existing
buildings need not meet the 100 foot
distance requirement. Where a main
entrance also serves as an exit, the
exit location will usually be
sufficiently obvious to occupants and no
exit sign is needed." She stated that a
glass door is a readily visible exit.
"There are many situations where the
actual need for signs may be debatable."
John Larriviere stated that the Board
had enough information to consider.
Ron Fields asked Pat Kuehn how many
doors that the Church was not wanting to
put the signs by. He stated that a
building could only have one main
entrance by Code.
Eric Hill asked what door they referred
as the main entrance.
Bill Fowkes stated that there were
several doors that were equally used.
Pat Kuehn stated from the Code "Access
to exits shall be marked by readily
visible signs in all cases where the
exit or way to reach it is not
immediately visible to the occupants. A
glass door is a visible exit.
Ron Fields stated that if there is a
person in the middle of the hall who has
been in the Church only one time, if
there was a fire they would be running
out a door they had never seen. And if
it was at night the door would not be
visible.
Page 20.
Bill Fowkes stated that the building is
already familiar to its occupants.
Ron Fields asked if this was for 100
percent of the time.
Pat Kuehn asked if they could agree that
the Church did not need to add the signs
in front of the obvious exits.
Ron Fields stated that it was needed at
the main entrance only.
Pat Kuehn stated that the Code said that
access to exits shall be marked by
readily visible signs in all cases where
the exit or way to reach it is not
immediately visible. If the exit is
immediately visible then it does not
require a sign.
Orville Baker asked if one carne out the
internal exit and could see the outside
within fifty feet, that was not
considered a visible sign.
Ron Fields stated that he could not see
anyone who was not familiar with the
building coming out of the auditorium
from a different door in which they
entered and having anything apparent to
them.
Pat Kuehn stated that they exit at the
ends of the building where the glass
doors are.
Ron Fields asked about if they could not
get through those exits.
Bill Fowkes stated that the main exits
from the auditorium are very close to
the glass door exits.
Ron Field asked what if someone was
coming in from one of the other rooms.
Rex McIntyre stated that all Ron Fields
was asking was for the Church to mark
the existing exits.
Pat Kuehn stated that was not the only
thing that was required. There were a
number of items.
Page 21.
Ron Fields stated that the Church had to
have more than one means of egress.
Danny Taylor stated that the Ramada Inn
fire in Fort Worth had five people died
because there were no exits signs.
Pat Kuehn stated the Churches were not
used in the early morning hours.
John Larriviere stated that if there was
a fire in the Council Chambers he would
run to a door marked "Exit".
Pat Kuehn stated that if the door was
glass and he could see outside he would
know that it was a means of egress.
John Larriviere stated yes he would know
that, if he could see outside of the
door.
Danny Taylor stated that in a room full
of smoke the door would not be visible.
He said that it would be a very least
cost factor to save lives. The Church
can put up illuminous signs which are
cheaper than the wired in signs.
Orville Baker made the motion to deny
the request of item No. 14.
Michael Dean seconded and the motion
carried 4-0 to deny.
Pat Kuehn stated that the last comment
she wanted to address was item No. 16
about smoke detectors being on house
current and of approved type, and on a
dedicated circuit. The Code requirement
the Fire Department is citing is
"Smoke detectors shall be installed in
all areas where required either by the
appropriate NFPA standard or by the
authority having jurisdiction."
John Larriviere asked if the Church had
any fire detectors or smoke alarms.
Pat Kuehn stated no.
Rex McIntyre asked what the Fire
Department was requiring.
Pat Kuehn stated that the Church add
smoke detectors on a dedicated circuit
of the building, which meant more
Page 22.
wiring.
Orville Baker asked if they had to be on
their own circuit.
Ron Fields stated yes, that it had to be
on a dedicated circuit.
John Larriviere asked if the Church
preferred not to have smoke alarms.
Pat Kuehn stated yes.
Eric Hill asked why the Church did not
to have them.
Pat Kuehn stated that her hope in
appearing before the Board of Appeals is
that she was given the impression that
some of the items could be discussed and
waved if it was deemed that that the
Church was meeting enough of the life
safety requirements. She stated that
the Code required smokes detectors be
installed in all areas where required
either by the appropriate NFPA standard,
in which the NFPA did not require it for
this type of building, or by the
authority having jurisdiction.
Rex McIntyre stated that particular
section of the Code was part objective
and part subjective.
Ron Fields stated that there was not a
building in the City that comes in
whether it was old, new, or used that
did not have a fire detector. He said
that a fire detector is one's only early
warning device.
Pat Kuehn stated that the other appeal
she wanted to make was that all smoke
detectors were not hard wired.
Ron Fields stated that the battery
operated ones were only good as the
person who changed the batteries. That
is the reason for detectors on house
current only.
Danny Taylor stated that there not a
business that had battery operated
detectors because if they did, they were
made to replace them.
Page 23.
John Larriviere asked if there was any
spring loaded detectors on the market.
Ron Fields stated that those were
outlawed in the City because they were a
farce.
Orville Baker asked if the hard wiring
rather than using the existing wiring a
requirement.
Ron Fields stated that it was a NFPA
requirement.
Greg Wheeler stated that hard wiring and
a dedicated circuit were the same thing.
Pat Kuehn stated that a new wire had to
be pulled through and have conduit and
wire in the attic to service it.
Greg Wheeler stated that there was a
provision for the dedicated circuit that
emergency lighting and smoke detectors
could both be on the same circuit.
John Larriviere asked for a motion.
Michael Dean made the motion to deny the
request of item No. 16.
Orville Baker seconded and the motion
carried 4-0 to deny.
Danny Taylor stated that item No. 13
still needed to be decided concerning
sprinklering the building.
Orville Baker asked if it was for the
stage.
Danny Taylor stated this was for the
whole building. Ordinance No. 1377 it
says it "Any occupancy 25,000 gross
square feet shall be sprinklered."
Michael Dean asked if they had less than
25,000 gross square footage then it did
not have to be sprinklered.
Danny Taylor stated yes. He said that
Ron Fields had figured up the footage
twice and came up with 25,022 without
the top floor.
Rex McIntyre asked Pat Kuehn the square
footage that she came up with.
Page 24.
Pat Kuehn stated that she came up with
24,929 square feet. She asked the Board
to bear in mind that the sprinkler
system was terribly expensive to
retrofit.
Danny Taylor stated that since the Fire
Department's figures and Ms. Kuehn's
were different an outside party should
figure the square footage because it
would deem whether a sprinkler system
would have to be added or not.
John Larriviere asked for a motion.
Pat Kuehn stated that before the Board
voted on this that so far in this
project they had been required to
sprinkler the stage, put in smoke
detectors and fire alarms, emergency
lighting, a fire hydrant and exit signs.
There was not much more that could be
added to this list. She asked how far
did the Church have to go protect the
building and its occupants.
Ron Fields stated that the purpose of
this was to protect the 1225 people.
Pat Kuehn stated that she understood the
concern for safety, but she was
concerned about her client's monetary
situation even though she knew that a
life could not be bought. Some where
there should be a partial balance in an
existing building such as this one. She
stated that a fire sprinkler system in a
new building was about a third of the
cost to install the same system in an
existing building. She was not sure
that one could even be put in the Church
because of the low roof spaces.
Eric Hill stated that this requirement
was not something that was thought up
over night. Situations have been proven
through the years and this is the
maximum protection that has been brought
up for everyone concerned. Mr. Hill
stated that all of the other building
are complying with the requirements that
have been brought up.
Bill Fowkes stated that he understood
that a line had to be set up somewhere,
but the cost of the sprinkler system
will cause them to not be able to do the
Page 25.
the renovations. Because of the
enormity of cost of the requirements,
the building will just have to remain
in
substandard condition that is unaccept-
able to the community.
Orville Baker stated that Bill Fowkes
could appeal it to the City Council.
John Larriviere stated that if the Board
voted that the Church did not have to
have a sprinkler system, then they would
have to do it for all existing
buildings.
Rex McIntyre asked the cost analysis on
the project.
Pat Kuehn stated that for the sprinkler
system the cost would be phenominal
since it would be put in an existing
structure. It would cost two to three
times more than a system in a new
building.
Danny Taylor agreed that the cost would
be tremendous.
Orville Baker stated that since this was
in the Ordinance and City Council passed
it and set the 25,000 foot limit, then
the City Council would have to be the
one to wave it.
Danny Taylor stated that if it had the
24,929 square feet that Pat Kuehn had,
then the system would not be required.
John Larriviere stated to have this Code
changed it would have to be brought to
the City Council.
Pat Kuehn stated that she would have to
go before the City Council to have the
Code changed or get a variance on her
appeal.
Danny Taylor stated that she should not
approach the Council for a variance
because he would fight it. He said that
she should approach them with the
existing building having to be torn up
in order to be brought up to Code and
get an amendment.
John Larriviere stated that a variance
may be in order, but the Board's
Page 26.
function is to interpret the Code and
make a decision.
John Larriviere called for a vote.
Orville Baker motioned to deny the
request of Item No. 13.
Michael Dean seconded and the motion
carried 4-0 to deny.
(,£ A 8b - '-1
Request by the North Park Baptist Church
to appeal the Fire Code requirements as
adopted in City Ordinance No. 1377.
John Larriviere call forward the
representative of the North Park Baptist
Church.
Reverend Bob Lane came forward and
introduced the Church's General
Contractor David Wilson. Mr. Lane
explained that Lloyd Wilson the original
General Contractor passed away on July
4, 1986. He said that they were not
there to make an impassioned plea or to
compromise safety in any fashion. He
stated that there were two items that
they wanted to appeal.
Rex McIntyre stated the Fire Department
and he had discussed this case and they
felt that they had a proper case for the
Board.
Bob Lane stated that they had met in the
Fire Marshall's Office and tried to draw
plans in accordance with the Code.
There seemed to have been some
misunderstanding and a lack of commun-
ication but it literally has the Church
confused.
John Larriviere asked Greg Wheeler to
explain the Church's problem.
Greg Wheeler stated that the basic
problem was the lack of communication
and falling in the crack between two
codes. He said that the fact that Ron
Fields had been told that this was to be
a Sunday School class and to be used
less than twelve hours a week. This was
not covered under either code, the
Uniform Building Code or the National
Fire Protection Association. Ron Fields
Page 27.
had talked to the contractor which had
recently deceased. In a conference with
Rev. Lane, Greg Wheeler had been told
that the building was to be used for a
regular Elementary School. Greg Wheeler
stated that when he reviewed the Fire
Department's write ups, there was not
any requirements for education. He then
looked up in the Uniform Building Code
and showed Rev. Lane the requirements
that would have to be met. In the UBC
if certain provisions are made, which is
to sprinkler the building and put up
area separation walls, which the Fire
Department does not recognize. Since
the Fire Department made no requirements
for the educational facility, Greg
Wheeler told Rev. Lane that if area
separation walls by the UBC they would
have three zero lot line buildings. To
meet the requirement of the UBC, if he
would sprinkler the middle section,
which by the Code is a separate
building, and provid two means of egress
from the second floor that would lead
directly outside and to ground level,
then he could have children of less that
second grade level occupy the second
floor. Greg Wheeler stated that this is
what Rev. Lane proceeded with and then
when the remodeling came in for another
section of the building, this is when
the Fire Department found out that this
was a regular Elementary school, and
wrote the requirements under their
section of the Code. The Church had no
problems with that and this was
inspected and passed by the Fire
Department. The problem that they were
experiencing now was on the new portion
of the building.
Rev. Lane stated over the last ten
years, every requirement ever made by
the Fire Department has been made. The
Church went into this project to add on
to the auditorium and somewhere along
the line there was a misunderstanding.
The Church did have a design of the
building and there was no possible way
to redesign the building. It was built
under the approval of Greg Wheeler. The
building is windowless but the Church
felt like they were meeting every
requirement with two fire walls and
sprinklering the class rooms. There was
no desire to eliminate any thing that
Page 28.
would present a safety hazard to any
children. The Church felt that by
meeting the requirements that they are
not creating a safety hazard. The
Church had two different sets of write
ups; one marked for new building
requirements that stated: Rooms in
Division 1 used for kindergarten, first
or second grade pupils shall not be
located above the first story.
Exception: In buildings equipped with an
automatic sprinkler system throughout,
rooms used for kindergarten, first and
second grade children or for day-care
purposes may be located on the second
story, provided there are at least two
exits directly to the exterior for the
exclusive use of such occupants. Rev.
Lane stated that the Church had the fire
walls. The Church redrew their plans to
meet this requirement with one corridor
dedicated to an outside door. The
building was built in what the Church in
assumption of the requirements and now
they had some rooms that they could not
use. This expenditure was approaching
$500,000 and the budget was $375,000.
Ninety percent of the $500,000 was Fire
Code related. He stated that in the
remodeling write ups the Code stated
that only second grade children could be
above the first floor. The Codes were
overlapping and the Church had designed
the room for first grade children. No
age break down was stated in the Code.
Rev. Lane stated that there were two
requests that the Church had. 1) In the
original requirements the sprinklering
had never been a continguency. The
ceiling in the auditorium were 20 feet
high. Sprinkler Companies had been
contacted and Rev. Lane read a letter
from Ready Sprinklers Inc. " Dear Mr.
Wilson, As you requested I am commenting
on the addition of sprinklers from the
above mentioned church. All though the
best protection of the property would be
sprinklers, it is doubtful that a system
protecting a gymnasium or sanctuary
would be affective due to the height of
sprinklers above combustives or flames.
Also the expensive of providing this
protection in the existing areas along
with the damaged and retrofit cost."
He requested that the Church only have
to sprinkler the classrooms as in the
first set of write ups and exclude the
Page 29.
gymnasium and the auditorium because of
the fire wall and other things that had
been added.
Rex McIntyre asked if the Church had
fire wall between those two sections.
Rev. Lane stated yes.
Rex McIntyre asked if the Church had met
the zero lot line requirement with
respect to the two hour wall.
Greg Wheeler stated yes the Church had
met that.
Rev. Lane stated that the second request
is simply to allow the Church to have
the first grade children upstairs.
John Larriviere asked if the sprinkler
system and the first grade children
upstairs were the appeals.
Rev. Lane stated no. The Church had no
problem with sprinklering the upstairs,
they did not want to be required to
sprinkler the gymnasium and the
auditorium.
Orville Baker asked for a statement from
the Fire Department concerning this
issue.
Danny Taylor read the Code for the Board
to interpret. "Every room or space used
for classrooms of other educational
purposes or normally subject to student
occupancy shall have at least one
outside window used for emergency rescue
or ventilation. He stated that the
exceptions were 1) In buildings provided
throughout with an approved automatic
sprinkler system. Mr. Taylor stated that
the Fire Department does not recognize
fire walls as separation in a building.
Exception 2) Where the room or space has
a door leading directly to the outside
of the building. If there is not a
window in the classroom then the
building must be sprinklered throughout.
Orville Baker asked Danny Taylor if he
had a definition of a building. Mr.
Baker asked if there was anything about
being able to break up a building into
several buildings.
Page 30.
Danny Taylor stated that there was not
anything in the Fire Code on that.
Rex McIntyre stated that there was a
Code problem with this kind of
situation.
Orville Baker stated that there were
apartments that were zero lot line.
Danny Taylor stated that apartment over
three stories or thirty five feet in
height had to be sprinklered.
Rex McIntyre stated that there was a
problem in how to interpret the separate
building situation.
Danny Taylor stated that a shopping
center of 90,000+ square feet and two
stories in height tried to get out of
sprinklering the building by placing two
hour fire walls every 12,000 square
feet. He said that the Fire Code did
not allow for that and the definition
for "building" was any structure used or
intended for supporting or sheltering
any use or occupancy.
Orville Baker stated that the Fire Code
was new to the Board. All their
decisions had been based on the Building
Code. Mr. Baker asked about the fire
walls.
Danny Taylor asked Greg Wheeler of he
had a shopping center of 100,000 square
feet and had two fire walls, would it
have to be sprinklered under the UBC.
Greg Wheeler stated no it would not if
the fire walls were installed properly.
He stated that the problem of this was
that he was aware of this in the Fire
Code, and he normally informs people of
this. With this being an education
center, was not aware of this because
Ron Fields had not mentioned it. He went
strictly by the Building Code which had
been met by the contractor. The
exceptions that were being asked for
were strictly in the Fire Code because
the Building Code was followed to the
letter. The two items that are being
requested have been done to meet the
UBC.
Page 31.
Orville Baker stated that only if a
building is described as everything
under one roof, instead of how Danny
Taylor described it, may be separated by
a fire wall making it into two build-
ings. If the same interpretation of a
building was used then the Church meets
the requirement.
Rex McIntyre stated that something would
probably have to be done about the
conflict of Codes in the future but this
case needed to be decided on.
Eric Hill stated that the Fire
Department interpretation of building is
that which is under one roof.
Danny Taylor stated yes that the Fire
Code does not recognize fire walls for
separating buildings.
Rex McIntyre stated that the zero lot
lines had been recently used in
duplexes.
Bob Lane stated that the Church would
not have minded putting in sprinklers or
fire walls, but now they were having to
go over what has already been protected.
He said that he understood the Fire
Department not respecting the fire
walls, but that the fire walls had
already been put in at a cost of $12,000
because the Church had been asked to do
that. Both of the write up classify the
Church as Group "E" occupancy which is a
school. Mr. Lane stated that when he
and the contractor went to the Fire
Marshall's office with the original
plans, Danny Taylor stated that that the
UBC was tougher than the Fire Code.
Danny Taylor stated that he made the
statement because Mr. Lane told him that
the UBC required the building to be
sprinklered.
Orville Baker made the motion to
approve the request of the Church by
going under the UBC.
Danny Taylor stated that before the
Board go with the decision, that a
shopping center was waiting for the
outcome of this case.
Page 32.
Rex McIntyre stated that there was a
problem and there was a way of meeting
that problem in the future. This needed
to be taken to the City Council of an
amendment to one of the Codes. He said
that it was not fair to a citizen to
have different definitions and trying to
comply to both.
Ron Fields stated that when a building
permit application is first submitted,
the Fire Department does the plan review
as well as the Building Official. The
more stringent of the two Codes goes to
the person who signs for the write ups.
From the first blue print submitted from
the Church, the Fire Department had been
told that the classroom would be used
less than twelve hours, therefore it
fell under "A Place of Assembly
Occupancy." He stated that since then it
had been changed. A new plan was draw
up because it was going to be an
educational facility. If the Fire
Department had been told that it was
going to be an educational occupancy,
then it would not have been draw up like
it was the first time.
Bob Lane stated that there never any
intention to mislead anyone. He
appeared in the office and both set of
write ups are a Class "E".
Rex McIntyre asked when the original
application was made.
Bob Lane stated in April.
Rex McIntyre stated that it did not make
sense that any deception was made when
Bob Lane sat there and talked to the
Fire Department about the plans.
Bob Lane stated that since the Church
was checked once a year, it would be
foolish to try and deceive anyone when
it would be inspected to meet the State
Welfare Requirements. This was the
reason that they met with Danny Taylor.
Orville Bake motioned to approve the
request.
John Larriviere asked if the Church had
to have a sprinkler system in the
auditorium and gymnasium.
Page 33.
Orville Baker stated that it would not
if it was considered a separate build-
ing under the Building Code.
Danny Taylor stated that the Fire
Department did not care if it was
sprinklered or not. If the Church put
windows in the classrooms it would
suffice.
Orville Baker motioned to approve the
request of BBA 86-7.
Ron Fields asked if the bottom floor was
sprinklered also.
Bob Lane stated yes.
Eric Hill seconded and the motion
carried 3-1 to approve.
Request by Kent R. Mikesell to appeal
the Fire Code requirements on Locking
Devices on exit doors.
John Larriviere called forward the
representative for this case.
Kent Mikesell came forward and stated
his name and place of business. He said
that the locks on the door have a key
lock inside and outside. The locks are
very high security and are very hard to
penetrate by drill or pick. The reason
for this is because they have the master
keys to hotels, motels, and apartment
complexes allover the Dallas/Fort Worth
area. If anyone got a hold of the
keys, rapes, assaults, and murders could
be committed. Mr. Mikesell stated that
there is no one at his place of business
after he leaves there at night. It is
locked all of the time. If he, his son,
or his wife are in there, they have the
keys to get out. If he is required to
put in a thumb turn lock on the inside
of the door, it will be as easy as ten
seconds to open the door with a coat
hanger. Mr. Mikesell stated that he
need to keep
the cylinder inside. Lives,
money, jewelery, and cash that would be
stolen if anyone got a hold of the keys.
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