HomeMy WebLinkAboutPZ 2011-11-03 MinutesMINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION OF THE
CITY OF NORTH RICHLAND HILLS, TEXAS
NOVEMBER 3, 2011
1.
CALL TO ORDER
The meeting was called to order by Randall Shiflet at 6:30 p.m.
2.
ROLL CALL
PRESENT Chairman
Ex- Officio
ABSENT Secretary
CITY STAFF Director of Planning and Dev.
Senior Planner
Asst. Planner
Asst Director of Public Works
Recording Secretary
Randall Shiflet
Don Bowen
Mark Haynes
Mike Benton
Jerry Tyner
Bill Schopper
Steven Cooper
Kathy Luppy
John Pitstick
Clayton Comstock
Chad VanSteenberg
Greg VanNeiuwenhuize
Gina Pastre
3.
Presentation and discussion of setbacks for three car garages in residential
zoning districts
John Pitstick came forward and said that this is a request based on the increase in
single family homes that we have been seeing. The current regulations for R -1 and R -2
allow for front entry garages set back 30 feet from the building line. The building
setback is 20 to 25 feet and the front entry garage would be allowed 30 feet behind the
front buildline. It typically would be about 50 feet back. With the R -3 districts we allow
front entry garages setback 30 feet off of the building line and side entry with no cars
and more than 10 feet in front of occupied building. Now we are getting requests to
allow for 3 car garages. They have the dual garage on the 20 foot setback and the
single car garage would be 30 feet back. The problem with this is by pushing the single
front entry garage back the extra 10 feet it really takes out of the backyards. Some of
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the homeowners building these larger homes want swimming pools and the extra area
in the backyard. We have changed that to allow for residents that have at least 2500
square feet of air conditioned space and 3 car garage would be allowed to have the 1
car front entry garage to be set back 20 feet rather than 30 feet. Staff looks at this as a
proactive approach to try to encourage larger homes. We are seeing a lot of the smaller
homes. What they have done to try to get around this is to add a small piece out front
of the house to get the 30 feet back. This would only be allowed for the 20 feet back if
they have a 3 car garage and minimum of 2500 square feet. We wanted to bring this
before you tonight to see how you feel about these changes. The previous
requirements would be still be in affect with R -1 and R -2. Front garages would have to
be setback 30 feet off of the building line and side and rear entry would be allowed and
R3 would allow for front entry garages 30 feet back from the front building line. The
only place we would allow the 20 feet would be with the 3 car garages with 2500 square
feet.
Don Bowen said that we are wasting a lot of space and concrete that isn't necessary
and also affecting the size of the backyard.
John Pitstick said that he knew that there has been a controversy on the front entry
garages but I think that we felt that if they are building a big nice house with a 3 car
garage at least one of the garages wouldn't be a problem moving it forward 10 feet.
Mark Haynes asked if the city has had a request from more than one builder?
John Pitstick said that one of our builders John Barfield has built some of the larger
subdivisions and Dustin Austin with Our Country Homes. They build typically the R -2
subdivisions with the larger lots that are usually 80 foot wide by 150 deep. He has built
3000 square foot homes and he likes to build the 3 car garages and offer the amenities.
They are having difficulty with the requirements because buyers like the house and not
the small backyards. They would like to allow for bigger backyards so that homeowners
would have room for swimming pools.
Randall Shiflet said that it seems that if we allow what is proposed that there could be a
doorway or walkway between the 2 car garage and 1 car garage where it wouldn't be
feasible with the current regulations without having to open both doors to move things
back and forth. Based on those that accidentally got approved I understand the
concern but there is a whole bunch of these in Forest Glenn that have the larger
setback and I don't really see any difference between the two.
John Pitstick said there are a few things we look at first is to be proactive to try to
encourage a larger home and secondly to bring the homes already built into
conformance as well. Staff will take blame for that when building was going on a lot in
2006 there were a few that were missed and built that way. We never received any
complaints on them but those are currently not to code. It seems that we have been
pushed the last several years to build smaller homes on smaller lots and this would be a
good approach to encourage the building of larger homes.
Randall Shiflet asked what is the square footage for R -1 ?
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John Pitstick said 2200 square feet.
Randall Shiflet said that there aren't many R -1 lots around anymore.
John Pitstick said that R -2 is 2000 square feet and R -3 is 1800 square feet. We are
seeing square foot well over 2500 -3000 square footage in the R -2 subdivisions.
Randall Shiflet said that if you took a picture of this house directly from the front you
wouldn't be able to tell any difference.
John Pitstick said that the concern that we were having with the front entry garages is
that the garage would be taking up the full architecture features where as you have the
full features of the home with the garage setback.
Randall Shiflet said that it may be 10 feet closer but it is at least 16 -18 foot behind that
front garage.
John Pitstick said that if the commission doesn't have a problem with this we would
have to put it in the paper to advertise and we can bring it back as a simple change
before Planning & Zoning commission on November 17, 2011 and it would go before
the City Council in December.
Jerry Tyner said that he walks his dog through that neighborhood all the time and never
realized that there was a difference In the R -3 there is an exemption for homes that
were built prior to August 12, 2002.
John Pitstick said that when the original ordinance was written the attorney had stated
that by law they had to place a date on that. If we had to do it over again I probably
wouldn't put the dates but that is what the attorney wanted at the time. George Staples
had told us when we put this other one together that we wouldn't have to put a date we
would just require it. We are only adding that one paragraph we aren't making any
other changes.
4.
Presentation and discussion of resale uses.
John Pitstick said that we are getting more requests for some of these resale shops.
Previously people were concerned about Pawn Shops. We have taken care of the
pawn shops and they are only allowed in the Industrial district and there are significant
regulations that control that. Several months ago we had the alternative financial
institutions such as check cashing places and stuff like that we have moved those
where they have to have a Special Use Permit and must be in Industrial districts as well.
We do have a few of those in town but we wouldn't have any additional ones without a
SUP. We have kind of tightened our belts on both of those areas. We got to looking at
the resale and we have put a list together. We have about 18 -20 of those and all of
those have some type of resale of goods. For example antique shops, we have 6 or 7
of those and clothing stores and we have several thrift stores and second hand sales of
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goods as well as used furniture. We are getting more and more requests for jewelry
and gold and silver buying and selling. We also see Book stores and video games
sales. We hate to dump this into one area where we would require an SUP for
everything. We have received requests for the sales of used clothing but some of them
are higher end clothes and brands. For Instance Clothes Mentor and Plato's Closet.
They only take high end stuff and name brand things. Frankly we don't have a problem
with them. We met with the Police Department and Chapter 18 basically requires a
second hand goods dealer permit. The Police Departments issue is that if someone
comes in to sell something they want some type of tracking mechanism for instance if
someone stole an expensive purse and they tried to sell it to the store. If they called in
and said it was stolen they want a tracking mechanism so they can track that person.
Most of these places have stickers and they have to give their driver's license number
and some have video cameras. We really need to review and update Chapter 18 and
we are working on that. We need to potentially review the outside storage as well, the
code enforcement officers are seeing some of these antique dealers placing
merchandise outside and it starts inching into the parking lot and things like that. This is
currently not allowed. We don't have a formal recommendation for you today other than
to say when you look at these 18 -20 uses and frankly there are 2 or 3 that I don't like
out of all of them. Most of them I wouldn't have problem with allowing in our
community. The other issue that has been brought up is that we do have a lot of vacant
retail in our community. If we make SUP's for everything than we would be slowing
down the process. Would we invite a Half Price Books into our community. I would say
yes. It is a good store. We are seeing more and more requests for used resale and the
most popular is the clothing resale and the gold and silver exchange. Under Chapter 18
1 think that it requires a clothing store or something that they have to hold on to the
goods for 10 days before they can resell in case something is reported missing or
stolen. We want to get your general opinion on that but we don't have a formal
recommendation and we just want to see how you feel about those types of uses.
Mike Benton said that when he hears resale I think of Haltom City and Belknap. That
little strip you get a lot of places that don't look very desirable. I wouldn't want our city
or Rufe Snow to start looking like that. There are a lot of shops with people sticking
merchandise outside on the sidewalk. That is my only concern with having too many of
those types. If we have some different restrictions set up and they can't put stuff
outside and the store front looks really nice.
John Pitstick said that Game Stop is a popular and they sell used video and games.
Maybe we can isolate where we don't have problem with books and videos but maybe
we have an issue with the antique stores that start selling junk. A couple of the antique
stores have started selling junk. Golightly's is really nice and everyone likes that stuff
and maybe we should have a requirement or SUP for the antique stores.
Mark Haynes said that I agree that if it is kept nice visibly from the outside than there
really is no issue.
Don Bowen said that there has been a problem on Grapevine Highway with the little
place between the sno cone stand and the donut shop. It looks pretty good now and
they have a little stuff outside. I don't know how they would do record keeping at a
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place like Thrift Town. I mean anytime I go by there that is one of the busiest stores in
town. It is a valuable place because that is where a lot of people have to shop there.
John Pitstick said that the Police Department is saying they need to regulate when you
sell clothes to them not when you are buying. Thrift Town might get charitable
contributions or something like that. The business Y2 off Y2 off on Boulevard 26 is all
brand new things just last season or a couple years old. These things are becoming
more popular in today's economy. What I'm hearing from you is that it isn't what they
are selling inside but the look and feel of the outside when you drive by.
Randall Shiflet said that I don't see it on this list and I don't remember the name of it
there is that baby resale shop just north of Frost bank. They came in as the first
business there. The other thing I was going to ask about. If Metro Gold and Silver sells
anything used I'm not aware of it.
John Pitstick said they sell used coins.
Randall Shiflet said that the times that I've been in there I've never seen anything used.
Don Bowen said that they sell used jewelery.
John Pitstick said that right now if they are selling clothing then they just put on
Certificate of Occupancy that it is a clothing store. Whether it is resale or not we don't
determine that. But I think what I'm hearing you guys saying is that you aren't worry
about that as much as enforcing the look and feel from the outside.
Randall Shiflet said that as you drive down a couple of streets that would be nice to
regulate and the Chapter 18 is geared toward Pawn Shops.
John Pitstick said that it doesn't say that specifically it says second hand dealer. It
needs to be updated because it doesn't clarify what could be considered second hand
sales. Frankly we are seeing with the expensive purses and jewelry that these can be
valuable even though they are used. Let us go back to Development Review Committee
and City Manager's office and see how we would like to proceed.
Mike Benton asked if the signage would be regulated as well or would it just stay the
same pretty much depending on the area they are in. The signs that you have in the
pictures are really nice. I think we need to stay away from homemade signs. It goes
back to the aesthetics of the building and keeping it looking professional.
John Pitstick said that those are good comments.
Randall Shiflet said that if it comes in on a SUP we can require that.
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1�711
Presentation and discussion of revisions to Chapter 114 (Vegetation), Code of
Ordinances, City of North Richland Hills, Texas.
Clayton Comstock came forward Chapter 14 is broken into three different sections.
Article II has to do with tree preservation. We aren't really focusing on that just yet.
Article III is what we are going to be reviewing tonight. Landscaping and buffer yard
regulations. Article IV Trophy Tree Program. I had mentioned last time that we met that
the Trophy Tree Program was started in 1993 shortly thereafter was forgotten about and
Geoff Sherman has been implementing the Champion Tree Program. The Champion
Tree Program is with the region and the state. There are annual requirements for the
Planning Director for neighborhood services department. There are even a tax credit
incentives in the Trophy Tree Program. If it isn't being used we just want to make sure
that it isn't being used in the future. That went to the Keep NRH Beautiful board and
they recommended that it just be terminated. A couple of existing purpose statements in
the existing landscape ordinance. Enhance Communities and ecological environment
and aesthetics qualities. Reduces negative effects caused by expansive and pervious
unvegetated surfaces. Contributes to air purification, oxygen regeneration, ground and
water recharge. Enhance property values. If you put landscape on a site and it makes
it look better and makes it more inviting. The purpose of tonight and the revisions that
we are going through is to implement the Loop 820 Corridor plan and also some of the
recommendations of the city image study. We applied for and were awarded scenic
city. We got that certification and we are silver on a scale of bronze to platinum. When
we applied for that they sent back some recommendations on how we can improve to
get that gold and platinum level. We will be looking to implement some of those
recommendations. Tree City USA Certification we have applied for in the past and have
been denied. Partly because of our tree preservation requirements aren't as strict as
they should be. A lot of other communities around have Tree City USA so we are
looking into that to see how we can meet those requirements. North Texas 2050 had
Dennis Grove come and meet with you. I'm sure he mentioned something about water
resources and how we are running out and by 2050 it is going to be extreme scarcity. If
the market doesn't require us to do something about it then the state probably will.
Water prices will increase and the cities will be paying for it. Landscaping is one of
those large consumers of water and we are just looking at how we can adjust our
landscaping to be more drought tolerant. We would like to codify existing quality
development that is within North Richland Hills already. There is a lot of stuff out there
that is built in North Richland Hills to great quality and they have been built to industry
standards when it comes to retail, multi family, office developments. What we want to
do is take our standards and bring it up to the quality development that we already
have.
Clayton Comstock gave Power Point Presentation on proposed changes to Landscape
ordinance for the Loop 820 Corridor.
John Pitstick said that Geoff Sherman our Landscape Horticulturist is here if you have
any questions on trees. The rationale behind this is that we would like to allow some
options and we want to have a look and feel when you drive into the city. We felt that
with the Deciduous trees that they would look pretty in the fall and try to take those entry
way treatments with the Limestone look. I don't think that we want to designate that you
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have to put a 50 foot wall here or bollards. We want to set it so that they have some
options but you begin to see that look and feel of the limestone and Deciduous native
trees. We wanted to do something that would allow for some options and we would
bring some illustrations that would show some examples of things that they could use.
The birm is still in there and we aren't planning on changing a lot of that. The Loop 820
is going to be a lot massive freeway and a lot of asphalt. We wanted to soften the
edges and these would be the private requirements. This is going to be 14 lanes of
traffic from frontage road to frontage road. From the curb of the frontage road your
going to have about 10 foot before you get to the property line. With the current
requirements there is a 15 foot landscape buffer but we are offering the alternative that
with some areas that have redevelopment that you could actually fit this in a 10 foot
area. We want to keep the current 15 foot. Taken from the Loop 820 study that
Deciduous look and feel along the Corridor.
Clayton Comstock said that we don't want to have 100% of the frontage of the property
be the Limestone wall because then you will just have a whole bunch of concrete on the
freeway and a whole bunch of wall on the corridor and it would be too much. I think that
most people would take that 25% minimum which would be 25 feet for every 100 feet.
Randall Shiflet asked if there has been any discussion or thought since the 2050
presentation to allow some sort of substitution for native grasses or native vegetation
that isn't going to require watering? Everything that we are looking at is going to require
water. They have already told us at the 2050 meeting is going to be cutting back on
water and here we are adding water.
Clayton Comstock said that a couple of the things that I am proposing in this ordinance
revision is first that bubblers be required on all trees. Spot irrigation for trees. A lot of
places simply spray irrigate and that is not enough for the trees to soak in and that
wastes a lot of water. The second thing is that I have a drought tolerant
recommendation in here which I will get to towards the end.
Randall Shiflet said that this should be a strong consideration when we even talk about
any landscaping.
John Pitstick said that these are Texas native trees and once they are established even
during drought times they are going to make it.
Geoffrey Sherman said that the water could be reduced and they would still survive.
John Pitstick said that all of these Deciduous trees are Texas native trees and they are
going to require water but once they get fully established then they could take less
watering. The other thing is that we discussed the Limestone wall. Yes we could look
at things like sage or some other native drought tolerant grasses in that area.
Randall Shiflet said that he mentioned the Gaylord entrance and I'm not sure if that is
Sage or native bushes and it looks really nice. If we could have something like that as a
consideration if it will hold up and not require a lot of maintenance and water I think that
it should be looked at.
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Clayton Comstock said that I have a lot of pictures on the drought tolerant planting and
we will discuss that further at the end.
John Pitstick said particularly in the parking lots too.
Clayton Comstock gave power point presentation on proposed changes for residential
landscape.
Mike Benton asked what is the minimum caliber that they require?
Clayton Comstock said 3 inch. We are opening the ordinance up for anything. I know
that some communities require 4 inch probably not good for establishing those trees
early on. Some require 2.5 inch but 3 inches is typical.
Clayton Comstock gave power point presentation on proposed changes for parking lot
landscape.
Randall Shiflet asked what was said about the irrigation for the grass?
John Pitstick said that if we allow for drought tolerant they wouldn't have to irrigate the
grass.
Clayton Comstock said that we would allow for some other surface type. We will go over
that when we get to the drought tolerant materials.
Randall Shiflet asked if dead grass would be acceptable?
Clayton Comstock said no. But some other surface would be acceptable.
Randall Shiflet said so you will tell us what that other surface would be allowed?
Clayton Comstock said yes. Crushed granite or river rock permeable pavers and things
like that.
Mike Benton asked if the area over by Red Robin have ceremonial drives or entry
ways?
Chad VanSteenberg said yes.
John Pitstick said that is a city street over there.
Chad VanSteenberg said that he is talking about the interior parking lot.
Randall Shiflet said that the street and the entryways are that way.
Mike Benton said that he loves the trees but is there a tree that the birds won't get into?
Geoffrey Sherman said no.
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Mike Benton said a great example of that would be out front of City Hall.
Clayton Comstock said that is a great point which is why want to allow the ornamental
substitutions.
Clayton Comstock gave power point presentation on drought tolerant landscape.
Randall Shiflet asked if staff was going to come back with a recommendation for the
drought tolerant landscape?
John Pitstick said yes. We want to address drought tolerant but what we trying to
determine if we should require drought tolerant in the parking lot. That is the perfect
area where we are seeing a lot of trees dying.
Randall Shiflet said I think that what we are trying to determine is whether we should
require or allow the drought tolerant. I am in favor of allowing and I think that we should
look at incentives for doing this.
Mike Benton said that he likes the direction we are going with this. I think this is where
we need to be with the concern of water usage in the future.
John Pitstick said that we want it to look nice but we also want to conserve water also.
So there is a balance we need to take there.
Randall Shiflet said that I know that signs and landscaping exclusively by city council.
What I am seeing here is just the last bullet that we would be involved in which would be
SUP or PD's.
John Pitstick said that is correct. If they wanted a variance to our regulation they would
go straight to city council. But if it is under a PD then you guys could grant it.
Randall Shiflet said that everything else up there would be between staff and city
council. Planning & Zoning doesn't do that.
Clayton Comstock said that all of this stuff has to do with Zoning even though they are
separated in the ordinance and by code, use of the land. We need your input for site
plans and zoning changes coming forward we need to understand the landscape
requirements. What may be too much or not enough. We value your input.
Randall Shiflet said that when we get a little further on this. I am always interested in
how what is being proposed or being discussed stacks up with the other communities.
Whether it is Southlake, Grapevine, Frisco, Roanoke. I like to look because I like to
think we can price ourselves completely out of development or we can be at the bottom.
1 don't want to be at either place. I would be able to give a better recommendation if we
had some idea where we fit in what we are proposing.
Clayton Comstock said that I have done a lot of research in the Mid Cities area and tried
to make sure that we were not way out of line. A lot of the stuff in right along with the
other city standards. The drought tolerant thing we would be sticking our heads out on
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but I believe that it would make us leaders. It is going to happen down the road to all of
the communities eventually.
Randall Shiflet said that you have the communities north of Dallas and they are at stage
3. This is the kind of thing that I think that we absolutely could be leaders and
personally driving around we have a 100 acre park and a majority of it is native grass.
That is a gem to the community. Why can't we take that and offer incentives in other
areas. I know that we would be on the leading edge however I think it would be good
with what we know is coming with the water conservation. Plus the appearance, it looks
really nice.
Jerry Tyner asked about the picture of Target without any landscape requirement and
one with the landscape. What is the developers cost between the two? Is it significant?
Clayton Comstock said that I wouldn't think that it would be much. If it is a matter of 5
or 6 crate myrtles to soften the front. Those couldn't cost very much at all.
Mike Benton said that it is a fraction of the cost of the building.
Jerry Tyner said that where it seems that it is a significant requirement we aren't really
pushing the price up by putting these requirements in.
Clayton Comstock said that he thinks the complaint we will have is that it will cover up
their sign.
John Pitstick said he thinks that is more of the issue.
Clayton Comstock said that if they center on the columns and use trees that don't get
really big then this shouldn't be a problem. When you get the big box stores you still
have the one tree per 50 feet.
Jerry Tyner said that you would think that it would be a big incentive to the property
owners to have the pea gravel since they won't have to mow or water.
John Pitstick said that some of those areas just with the natural grade of the land you
could just put those islands in where you wouldn't have to irrigate or mow it and put in
natural native grasses.
Randall Shiflet said I've watched and dealt with disaster on Southlake Boulevard. They
have gone in and tore out that center and watched them put in the irrigation. The
ongoing maintenance and irrigation that will be required for this will be expensive. It
may be prettier but it will be hard to maintain.
Clayton Comstock said that they were not concerned about drought tolerant when they
put that in.
Randall Shiflet said they did put the brick around the sides on that but no one will be
walking around out there.
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Clayton Comstock said that was a TXDOT requirement for maintenance.
Randall Shiflet said that the irrigation and whether it is going to be grass or crate myrtles
whatever that put out in the middle. That is a perfect example of something I would be
against recommending for parking lots in North Richland Hills. I think that we can come
up with something a whole lot prettier that the long term maintenance would be less.
Mike Benton asked if we had looked at Arizona? They are in a serious situation and
they don't even put grass in the yards in the residential areas. Is that something that we
look at for our possible future?
Clayton Comstock said that we could.
Mike Benton said that we may be there someday.
John Pitstick said that I think that is something that we could allow if someone wanted to
do that.
5.
ADJOURNMENT
There being no other business, the meeting adjourned at 8:19 p.m.
Chairman Secretary
Randy S�h BQB wen
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